From the Poetry.LA YouTube Ben Trigg transcript.

As transcribed by YouTube without any changes.

,,,have you seen any

3:14

major change from the beginning when you started we in the market today in the in

3:20

the budget production of the boys are in contact with the one thing I think the

3:25

Tappan disaster evening went on and gained a reputation 

3:30

bring in a

3:33

a new level of featured readers and I feel like part of what has led to the

3:40

the level of our readers in the improvements i've seen over the course

3:47

of years is the examples we pride so you know when you can bring in some really

3:53

amazing people that people are hearing what works and even unconsciously try to

4:02

emulate that I think it just sort of elevates everything and i felt like we

4:08

have there's a almost unspoken expectation at the ugly mug like people

4:18

figure out if they're gonna read there they need to either run you know improve

4:23

as they can you know we don't have some sort of awake if you want this could go

4:27

but but we want everybody doesn't matter how good you are or if you're ok if

4:33

you're amazing we want everyone to get better and and they're sort of like

4:39

understanding of no work

4:43

grow on growth exactly grow or eventually people move on to something else...

When poets use friendship with other poets as excuse to punish poets.

In a way, my ongoing Ugly Mug banishment (and my various--sometimes pleas for forgiveness, sometimes open irritation at the situation stretching out for years) could be compared to the principal's office scene in John Hughes' THE BREAKFAST CLUB where principal Paul Gleason and student Judd Nelson keep at each other, ensuring that the web of anger and recrimination becomes as hard as iron.

Given the two-dimensional definition of me (by the Two Idiots Peddling Poetry and certain friends of theirs as a highly unpleasant person who doesn't write "good" poetry), there are times when I don't care whether I ever return to Orange CA--except to, perhaps, go window shopping in the old-neighborhood downtown area.

On some level, the hosts and the owner probably know that I learned my lesson from the unfortunate outburst of almost a decade ago and wouldn't misbehave and/or be disrespectful at the venue.

But, as has been made clear to me by one of the hosts in recent years, it's less about what I mentioned in the previous paragraph and more to do with what I write on this blog (before that, on certain listserves).  And, apparently, beyond the wish that I don't write anything critical of the reading or the hosts, lays the edict that I can never enter the Ugly Mug again because I have caused offense to friends of theirs.  This offense has been due to written words of mine (some of which I would never write again; others, I would restate in a more thoughtful, considerate--but still dissenting--way).

Ideally, even someone like me should be able to attend any kind of poetry reading as long as I'm not verbally or physically threatening to anyone--and quiet and respectful to the hosts, features and open-mike poets while they are on the podium.

It's understandable that people get hurt and have reflexive reactions if they feel their friends are being regarded unfairly.  But, as long as the disputed conduct exists far away from the venue, no poet should have a reason to feel wary of even outcast poets.

In the SoCal poetry community, banishment should not be used as a tool to silence unpopular speech that happens in other areas than poetry venues.

Most local poets will stand up for causes national and worldwide.  Just not (alas) how the power given to poetry hosts by reading attendance (and money given to features and venue owners) can be sometimes wielded in a less than poetic fashion.

JEREMIAH, SON OF CASSANDRA--LIVE VERSION

Recorded live at the Ugly Mug in Orange, CA in 2003.

Sins forever considered unforgivable: Jane Fonda, Artie Lange and me.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jane-fonda-criticizes-qvc-far-212264
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2011/07/16/jane-fonda-blames-canceled-qvc-appearance-on-the-right-wing/
http://www.danpatrick.com/2011/07/15/artie-lange-talks-about-returning-to-radio-to-do-sports/
http://www.tmz.com/2011/07/14/artie-lang-radio-howard-stern-directv-nick-dipaolo-hopfully-supportive-support/
http://poetry-arts-confidential.blogspot.com/2011/04/annual-plea-for-forgiveness-re-ugly-mug.html
http://poetry-arts-confidential.blogspot.com/2011/05/re-ugly-mug-its-all-over-for-me.html

The annual plea for forgiveness re the Ugly Mug situation of 2004.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?fbid=10150155171782775&id=706507774&aid=289335


Dear Steve, Ben and Phil,

First of all, congratulations on the DON'T BLAME THE UGLY MUG anthology.  It's a milestone you all should take pride in reaching.

And once again, I'm writing you to again ask for forgiveness regarding misbehavior on my part in 2004 resulting in banishment.

At this point, I'll address people individually.

I'm sorry to have disrespected you, Steve.  And I'm also very regretful it happened after a reading while most of the audience remained in the room.

Also, I owe Phil an apology for not closing my mouth and listening when he was trying to impress on me the magnitude of what happened.  It was wrong of me to talk back like I did.

Of course, I'm aware of questions of "credibility" since I've petitioned publicly and privately for this banishment to end--and I've expressed disappointment and hurt when it hasn't happened.

In my defense, I'd like to restate my respect for all three of you by reminding you that I've never returned to the Ugly Mug since September of 2004.   Whatever can be said, I've done my best to abide by that edict.

And it must be said that I attended the Ugly Mug between 2000 and 2004--with only the one incident of wrongful behavior to my discredit during that four-year period.

Recently, I read this statement about the Ugly Mug and the reading "They care deeply about poetry, and community, and realize the two aren't mutually exclusive."

I'd like to think that forgiveness is an integral part of all communities--especially poetry.

It's safe to say that my behavior, upon returning to Wednesday readings, would be exemplary and nondisruptive like it was between 2000 and 2004.

I very much hope we can all stop being perennially upset at each other and solidify the community that poets and business owners work so hard to achieve.

Yours sincerely,
Terry McCarty

And now, it's time for me to be shunned by Jaimes Palacio, Orange County poet/host..

Imagine Elton John's "Funeral For A Friend" playing as you read this.

Jaimes Palacio, someone of importance in the Orange County poetry community, has now shunned me.  He unfriended me on Facebook--apparently because of the blog post below the one you're reading now (which I also put onto Facebook).

Here's my comment: I thought up until now that Jaimes and I were at least acquaintances, appreciated him and his poems and I have never given him any choose-me-or-them conditions re friendship during the decade I knew him. Time for a chorus of Taps.

[POSTSCRIPT 8/30/2010: At least I'm not banned from Jaimes' readings at Gypsy Den Grand Central in Santa Ana.  But otherwise, whatever there was is over now.]

Sharing a letter to owner of the Ugly Mug in Orange, CA.

Dear Phil,
A few years back, I went to one of the Wednesday poetry readings--something I did for about four years' worth.

I was upset with Steve, the co-host and you reprimanded me for it outside.
I was rude to you and said a couple of four-letter words in anger.

You told me to never come back.
I'm really sorry to have treated a hard-working person
like you with no respect at all. And I've not been back since.

Can I please ask you to forgive me
so I could come back to see
the Wednesday poetry readings again?
Am over fifty now
and have much better manners
and impulse control than I used to.
Please write back and let me know
if this is acceptable to you.

Sincerely,
Terry McCarty

Being set straight yet again about Los Angeles poetry's desire to keep the herd thinned.

So the Important poet and I have been continuing to e-mail and, among other things, I was reminded that my standards for which poets should get features (a mixture of various types--and sometimes skill levels) aren't correct ones. I would allow too much--the horror, the horror--mediocrity to be put on display.

Along with that axiom, I was reminded that if poets aren't able to get features at venues where, say, Red Hen Press authors, Pushcart Prize winners and RATTLE (or other literary magazine) editors are favored (including most of the remaining "coffeehouse" readings), then it means the poets should write "better."

I know I'm showing my stupidity/naivete/lack of undertanding again, but it seems to me that a big, diverse city like Los Angeles ought to have a more diverse small-reading scene than it does.

But chasing prestige (or being in the presence of it) is paramount with a lot of people now.

And so the poetry scene in Los Angeles will continue to be exclusive and secretsecret--with the late Hyperpoets reading at Venice's Rose Cafe being the template for the high-toned, often too-dry and too-self-consciously "I'm writing TRUE poetry, as any fool can see" artistic desert.

OC poet Steve Ramirez and my going-on-five-years banishment from Orange's Ugly Mug.

There are many colorful tales in show business of personalities being 86ed from various venues for behavior or opinions contrary to management.

These include: Andrew Dice Clay's alleged disbarment from Ben Frank's coffee shop on the Sunset Strip (now a Mel's Drive-In), Dick Shawn's incurring of Johnny Carson's wrath when Shawn, guest-hosting THE TONIGHT SHOW, turned over Carson's desk on-camera to use it as a prop for a Washington-crossing-the-Delaware routine and Kathy Griffin being forbidden as a guest on THE VIEW for being Kathy Griffin.

I wish my tale of banishment could be a bit more colorful and extravagant. But, it isn't. It's a small tale of how one bad incident on my part unraveled roughly four-and-a-half years of acquaintanceship--and how the offended party has first justly responded, then flagrantly overreacted in the years since.

Once upon a time, I got along with Steve Ramirez--along with Ben Trigg, one of the two hosts of the TWO IDIOTS PEDDLING POETRY reading series in Orange (located at the Ugly Mug coffeehouse just a few blocks from Chapman University). I even featured there two to three times and, when we were both in Austin for the 2001 AIPF poetry festival, I gave Steve a ride in my rented car. Back then, Steve was nice to me and vice versa.

And then, for awhile, I didn't get down to OC to attend Ugly Mug readings. When I did, it seemed like Steve (who desired respect and parity with the Orange County poetry elite) got a somewhat swelled head and was a bit more distant with me.

To shorten this long story, I misbehaved at the Ugly Mug. I was primarily upset with something dismissive Steve said about me during the reading (which I probably set myself up for). And, after the reading, I couldn't contain my anger and wanted to talk to Steve. He didn't want any kind of conversation with me. I opted for the reaction of yelling at him. Mistake--especially considering some OC and LA Prominent Poets were still in the room. I walked out of the Ugly Mug, followed by the venue owner. The owner and I had words(one of mine fell into the David Mamet category)--and I was told to never come back.

This was nearly five years ago, in the late summer/early fall of 2004. Since then, I've tried to avoid adverse public behavior and have been mostly successful. On a handful of occasions, I've written Steve and asked to return. At first, he would shrug and say "it's up to [venue owner]." And I did write to the venue owner. No dice. As years passed, Steve would respond in a slightly more active-agressive "I wish you wouldn't come back/bother me about this" way.

And I took the hint and have left this subject alone.

But, as the five-year mark rolls around, I just want to go ahead and make my feelings public; I just don't care anymore about the inherent ridiculousness of Steve Ramirez' (plus the venue owner's) determination to hold on to his anger and wariness into infinity and beyond.

I've done my best to atone. Since 2004, I've accomplished a few good things in poetry--including being chosen as part of a publication reading this coming Saturday. And, to put it concisely, I don't care to enter the Ugly Mug for the rest of my life, regardless of whether Two Idiots Peddling Poetry or anyone else happen to host there.

I prefer self-respect instead.

That's how it rolls in literary poetry L.A.

I'm going to run through a few red lights with this post. Here goes.....

Earlier tonight, I sat through a featured reading by an overly pretentious, forgettable literary poet (who, to be fair, had one tolerable poem referencing Edward Hopper paintings) at a L.A.-area venue. The literary poet has some cachet in this region because he edits a literary magazine (or should I say, "journal") and has a new book published by an L.A.-based prestige small press named after a barnyard animal.

The reading itself, like about three other readings in the LA/OC area, is now modeled after a long-dead but still influential poetry series that was named after a certain kind of flower.

What can I say about literary poetry when it exists more to ooh-ah-awe and attract looking-for-Pushcart-Prize-consideration players in the "community" than to edify or satisfy poets/civilians who may not be breathlessly fascinated by the poet's self-proclaimed academic brilliance and/or his publication/website?

[Sidebar: An article by Brendan Bernhard about poetry in L.A. in the LA WEEKLY a decade ago--besides offending certain community majordomos upset about not being Recognized by Bernhard--had a priceless quote from someone (perhaps a bookseller) that described literary poets as "people in academia writing for each other."]

At this point, I realize I'm going to attract potential criticism for criticizing a poet (something I'd be tut-tutted about--and then forbidden to do--on at least one local poetry listserve) after having been chastised recently for not being "ambitious" enough.

Sorry, but there's also a danger to the health of poetry as a whole when poets and hosts bend over backwards to fawn over too-self-satisfied, please-my-professor-at-university, deadly-dull-but-au-courant verse that's drier than the deodorizer I put inside my cats' litter boxes three times a week.

I'll end this with a cautionary anecdote: Emily Dickinson showed her work to a Major Publisher of her day. She was considered "not good enough" and her poetry didn't really surface en masse until after her death.

It's safe to say Emily Dickinson will be read for a few centuries more than the Influential Poet/Editor I was bored, irritated and deeply depressed by tonight.