The Ugly Mug reading and lingering emotions.

So a poet I respect (have known him since 1998) wrote something like this on the Two Idiots Peddling Poetry Ugly Mug reading last night:
Cool reading!  I enjoyed myself.

And I was tempted to write this on his Facebook wall, but, instead, am posting it here:
It's a cool reading if you're allowed in. After 12 years of being barred, perhaps I should be able to read posts like this without feeling any emotions whatsoever. But I have the mark of Cain still upon me and people will still go and enjoy and think of their own enjoyment and not pay attention to anything I write.

In theory, I shouldn't care one way or another about this--and should have stopped thinking about the ban after it happened in 2004.

But it's still a reminder of the days when I got along and went along with the majority of poets in the community.

Also, it shows the essential fragility of poet-to-poet relationships. You can make one mistake. But if that mistake is a Big Public Error, then goodwill instantly stops--and it's as though you never knew the other person at all and no support/nothing good you've done for him in the past counts for anything.

Over the years, I've thought out loud on this incident here. Sometimes with anger. Other times, I've asked for forgiveness.

At this point, I'm resigned to knowing it's somewhere I'm eternally not allowed into.

And aware that people I like continue to go to the reading and are entertained by it/receive approval from the audience of poets/Chapman students.

Also, doubly aware that the people I like who attend the reading probably share this sentiment:
YOUR BAN IS YOUR PROBLEM, NOT OURS! GET OVER IT!

Therefore, I need to learn to be completely desensitized when people post laudatory messages and photos on Facebook of their moments of glory in a coffeehouse in the city of Orange CA.

From the Poetry.LA YouTube Ben Trigg transcript.

As transcribed by YouTube without any changes.

,,,have you seen any

3:14

major change from the beginning when you started we in the market today in the in

3:20

the budget production of the boys are in contact with the one thing I think the

3:25

Tappan disaster evening went on and gained a reputation 

3:30

bring in a

3:33

a new level of featured readers and I feel like part of what has led to the

3:40

the level of our readers in the improvements i've seen over the course

3:47

of years is the examples we pride so you know when you can bring in some really

3:53

amazing people that people are hearing what works and even unconsciously try to

4:02

emulate that I think it just sort of elevates everything and i felt like we

4:08

have there's a almost unspoken expectation at the ugly mug like people

4:18

figure out if they're gonna read there they need to either run you know improve

4:23

as they can you know we don't have some sort of awake if you want this could go

4:27

but but we want everybody doesn't matter how good you are or if you're ok if

4:33

you're amazing we want everyone to get better and and they're sort of like

4:39

understanding of no work

4:43

grow on growth exactly grow or eventually people move on to something else...

Ben Trigg explains today's poetry scene for you.

Recently, veteran Orange County poetry host Ben Trigg did an interview with Mariano Zaro for the Poetry.LA site.  From 3:16 to 4:50 in the video, Trigg discusses the evolution in the Two Idiots Peddling Poetry reading (co-hosted with Steve Ramirez) from relative populism (i.e.showcasing a variety of levels of talent) to a more elevated status in terms of poetry and the reading's reputation (applying to both features and open readers).

Here's a link to the entire video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-gchpRhaps

When poets use friendship with other poets as excuse to punish poets.

In a way, my ongoing Ugly Mug banishment (and my various--sometimes pleas for forgiveness, sometimes open irritation at the situation stretching out for years) could be compared to the principal's office scene in John Hughes' THE BREAKFAST CLUB where principal Paul Gleason and student Judd Nelson keep at each other, ensuring that the web of anger and recrimination becomes as hard as iron.

Given the two-dimensional definition of me (by the Two Idiots Peddling Poetry and certain friends of theirs as a highly unpleasant person who doesn't write "good" poetry), there are times when I don't care whether I ever return to Orange CA--except to, perhaps, go window shopping in the old-neighborhood downtown area.

On some level, the hosts and the owner probably know that I learned my lesson from the unfortunate outburst of almost a decade ago and wouldn't misbehave and/or be disrespectful at the venue.

But, as has been made clear to me by one of the hosts in recent years, it's less about what I mentioned in the previous paragraph and more to do with what I write on this blog (before that, on certain listserves).  And, apparently, beyond the wish that I don't write anything critical of the reading or the hosts, lays the edict that I can never enter the Ugly Mug again because I have caused offense to friends of theirs.  This offense has been due to written words of mine (some of which I would never write again; others, I would restate in a more thoughtful, considerate--but still dissenting--way).

Ideally, even someone like me should be able to attend any kind of poetry reading as long as I'm not verbally or physically threatening to anyone--and quiet and respectful to the hosts, features and open-mike poets while they are on the podium.

It's understandable that people get hurt and have reflexive reactions if they feel their friends are being regarded unfairly.  But, as long as the disputed conduct exists far away from the venue, no poet should have a reason to feel wary of even outcast poets.

In the SoCal poetry community, banishment should not be used as a tool to silence unpopular speech that happens in other areas than poetry venues.

Most local poets will stand up for causes national and worldwide.  Just not (alas) how the power given to poetry hosts by reading attendance (and money given to features and venue owners) can be sometimes wielded in a less than poetic fashion.

JEREMIAH, SON OF CASSANDRA--LIVE VERSION

Recorded live at the Ugly Mug in Orange, CA in 2003.

Poet John F. Buckley's blog offers insight into current LBC/OC poetry readings.

http://johnfrancisbuckley.wordpress.com/

Recommending the above blog (which is like a secretary taking minutes of a meeting) to those who may be curious about current readings in LA/Long Beach/Orange County--who attends, what they read, etc.

Re the Ugly Mug: it's all over for me.

"Regarding your request, Phil seriously considered it (which is a lot more
than he's done in the past), but ultimately had trouble accepting the
sincerity of your apology given your relatively recent negative comments
online about the reading and the Ugly Mug."--from an e-mail sent to me by Ben Trigg, Ugly Mug cohost.

Presuming this is one of the comments in question:
http://poetry-arts-confidential.blogspot.com/2011/04/ocs-two-idiots-reading-truth-is.html

And, the apology I made (after some thought on the banishment and realizing I've done a bad job of expressing contrition) http://poetry-arts-confidential.blogspot.com/2011/04/annual-plea-for-forgiveness-re-ugly-mug.html

Also presuming this is another "negative" comment--though it's not about the reading and the Ugly Mug, though.  It merely takes issue with the DON'T BLAME THE UGLY MUG anthology introduction:
http://poetry-arts-confidential.blogspot.com/2011/04/heres-to-culture-commandos.html

All I can do is stand by the apology; I feel better for having found the courage and humility to do it.  And, to close, here's an excerpt from the response e-mail I wrote to Ben (highlighting by me):
I was--and am still--sorry for my conduct of seven years ago. And I feel really sad about having my sincerity doubted--and getting told that my apologies aren't abject enough. It's been enough to cope with being mocked by whoever writes the "Terry McCarty's War Against Humanity" blog.



All three of you should be aware by now that I would never come back to the Ugly Mug only to be loud and disruptive to you and anyone else in attendance.

So, there you have it.  Nothing else to say, period.

The annual plea for forgiveness re the Ugly Mug situation of 2004.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?fbid=10150155171782775&id=706507774&aid=289335


Dear Steve, Ben and Phil,

First of all, congratulations on the DON'T BLAME THE UGLY MUG anthology.  It's a milestone you all should take pride in reaching.

And once again, I'm writing you to again ask for forgiveness regarding misbehavior on my part in 2004 resulting in banishment.

At this point, I'll address people individually.

I'm sorry to have disrespected you, Steve.  And I'm also very regretful it happened after a reading while most of the audience remained in the room.

Also, I owe Phil an apology for not closing my mouth and listening when he was trying to impress on me the magnitude of what happened.  It was wrong of me to talk back like I did.

Of course, I'm aware of questions of "credibility" since I've petitioned publicly and privately for this banishment to end--and I've expressed disappointment and hurt when it hasn't happened.

In my defense, I'd like to restate my respect for all three of you by reminding you that I've never returned to the Ugly Mug since September of 2004.   Whatever can be said, I've done my best to abide by that edict.

And it must be said that I attended the Ugly Mug between 2000 and 2004--with only the one incident of wrongful behavior to my discredit during that four-year period.

Recently, I read this statement about the Ugly Mug and the reading "They care deeply about poetry, and community, and realize the two aren't mutually exclusive."

I'd like to think that forgiveness is an integral part of all communities--especially poetry.

It's safe to say that my behavior, upon returning to Wednesday readings, would be exemplary and nondisruptive like it was between 2000 and 2004.

I very much hope we can all stop being perennially upset at each other and solidify the community that poets and business owners work so hard to achieve.

Yours sincerely,
Terry McCarty

OC's The Two Idiots reading--the truth is somewhere between these two poles.

From a former OC poet/tastemaker:
Hosts Ben Trigg and Steve Ramirez have created something powerful and important there in Southern California. Readings that last that long are rare, and readings that last that long and have hosted such a wide range of new and established poetic work are even more rare. Even after all of these years, "Two Idiots" remains my favorite reading in the country, not least because Steve and Ben are two of my favorite people. They care deeply about poetry, and about community, and realize the two aren't mutually exclusive. This reading has been the heart of Southern California poetry for years, and here's wishing them many more years of doing great work.


From a poster on Yelp:
I appreciate that the Ugly Mug supports creativity.  Many of the poets I've heard there are very talented, as well.  Unfortunately, during multiple visits, I have felt like an unwanted guest in somebody's home. Sometimes it feels a bit like an "in" clique and if you're not in, you're out.

As for me, I'm "out" for the rest of my life (won't go into it again here)--but, because I know a few of the poets who have performed there, will buy the DON'T BLAME THE UGLY MUG anthology (with a cover designed by OC poet/artist Leigh White) nonetheless.

It's coming: Anthology of Orange County poets and their fellow travelers.

Saw this poetry volume listed on someone's blog recently: Don't Blame the Ugly Mug: Ten Years of Two Idiots Peddling Poetry from Tebot Bach.

No comment; if you've read this blog in the past you know what I think of both the Ugly Mug in Orange, CA in general and one of the Two Idiots in particular.

I will make a wider comment to note that the OC poetry scene tends to thrive on social conventions of the kind Jane Austen and Edith Wharton wrote about (not necessrily admiring them)--plus, it brings up creepy memories of the trailer I saw for the cult horror film THE HUMAN CENTIPEDE.

And now, it's time for me to be shunned by Jaimes Palacio, Orange County poet/host..

Imagine Elton John's "Funeral For A Friend" playing as you read this.

Jaimes Palacio, someone of importance in the Orange County poetry community, has now shunned me.  He unfriended me on Facebook--apparently because of the blog post below the one you're reading now (which I also put onto Facebook).

Here's my comment: I thought up until now that Jaimes and I were at least acquaintances, appreciated him and his poems and I have never given him any choose-me-or-them conditions re friendship during the decade I knew him. Time for a chorus of Taps.

[POSTSCRIPT 8/30/2010: At least I'm not banned from Jaimes' readings at Gypsy Den Grand Central in Santa Ana.  But otherwise, whatever there was is over now.]

Orange's Ugly Mug and the 10th anniversary of Two Idiots Peddling Poetry reading.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-ugly-mug-cafe-orange

Printing these review excerpts from the Ugly Mug page on Yelp.com:
"yep, the owner's a jerk. what's worse, is i went to open mic to read poetry and i felt like i stepped into a family gathering where i wasn't invited. not your open, creative, accepting environment , but a group of self serving, snobby people who don't welcome newcomers and instead of actually reading poetry, they stand on stage to grab attention and hear themselves speak. coffee's bad, too. there are much better places to go. save yourself from a bad aftertaste of coffee and people."

"I appreciate that the Ugly Mug supports creativity. Many of the poets I've heard there are very talented, as well. Unfortunately, during multiple visits, I have felt like an unwanted guest in somebody's home. Sometimes it feels a bit like an "in" clique and if you're not in, you're out."


"It's a real shame that the guy that runs this place has the biggest, baddest attitude I have ever met. At first I thought he was one of those guys that acted like a curmudgeon, because it amused him. Hey, that's funny and cool in a perverse way. Sadly, it doesn't take long for one to figured out that... it isn't an act."

And, especially after reading these three comments, to think I wasted time (and probably took a month off my lifespan from the stress) trying to get back in the good graces of the owner and the hosts--something that won't ever happen due to their pride and stubbornness and my one big sin committed way back in 2004.

Moral: Offend the owner and/or hosts, and be prepared for a lifetime ban. Trust me, Phil the owner doesn't kid about these things.

Obviously, I was lucky to have four years of acquaintanceship with Steve Ramirez (didn't know Ben Trigg very well at all during that period)--and, before I caused myself to Walk The Plank, I was also blessed with being considered good enough to feature (based on my open-reading performance), before my talent level became screened out of consideration.

And, during these half-dozen years of banishment, I was hoping to at least be admitted to watch and learn from the higher level of poets featuring there.

It wasn't and isn't to be.  Phil the owner behaves like Craig T. Nelson's high school football coach in ALL THE RIGHT MOVES--and Steve and Ben just don't want to deal with the situation (and they have prominent poetry community friends/enablers like G. Murray Thomas, who scolded me backchannel on their behalf awhile back).

Essentially, the poetry community will stand up for progressive causes and people facing alleged Unjust Accusations (i.e. the Free Mumia movement going on in the late 90s when I began reading in coffeehouses).  But they, by and large, will not risk their comfort and social standing to associate with unpopular poets, or--egad--speak up on their behalf.

There's a limit to how righteous a poet can be.

Sharing a letter to owner of the Ugly Mug in Orange, CA.

Dear Phil,
A few years back, I went to one of the Wednesday poetry readings--something I did for about four years' worth.

I was upset with Steve, the co-host and you reprimanded me for it outside.
I was rude to you and said a couple of four-letter words in anger.

You told me to never come back.
I'm really sorry to have treated a hard-working person
like you with no respect at all. And I've not been back since.

Can I please ask you to forgive me
so I could come back to see
the Wednesday poetry readings again?
Am over fifty now
and have much better manners
and impulse control than I used to.
Please write back and let me know
if this is acceptable to you.

Sincerely,
Terry McCarty

I'm sorry for what I did; please let this punishment end.

Since it's National Poetry Month, I'd like to publicly wish for Steve Ramirez and Ben Trigg to allow me to again be a patron of their Wednesday readings at the Ugly Mug [in Orange, CA]. I misbehaved one time in 2004 and have been 86ed by them plus the owner since. I'm sorry that the incident happened and will never repeat it in the ...future. In the interest of true poetry community, please lift this lengthy ban on my attendance.

[UPDATE 4/9/10: The above was posted to my Facebook page; copies were sent to Steve and Ben privately. Silence. So I added the following to the original Facebook message:
Sad to see silence regarding the above statement. It's National Poetry Month; perhaps some kind of forgiveness and/or amnesty should be shown in poetry communities throughout the nation. Otherwise, we sound rather hollow and inauthentic when using the phrase "the poetry community." ]

[UPDATE 4/17/10: Still banned from the Ugly Mug. No end in sight.]

Amber Tamblyn at Ugly Mug in Orange 10/28--time to see poetry community celeb worship in action.

Tomorrow night, if you happen to be in Orange, CA, you have the opportunity to see actress Amber Tamblyn display her skill as a poet/writer (saw her years ago at a Newer Poets Reading in downtown Los Angeles) at the coffeehouse The Ugly Mug near Chapman University. The reading will begin at 8:00 p.m. and it will be a prime opportunity to watch major league fawning from the hosts/other poets/students from Chapman.

No disrespect meant to Ms. Tamblyn and her art, but I wrote a poem about poetry community celeb worship a few years back--she's namechecked in the piece:
POETISTA

I hate bad art.
Unfortunately, I live in Los Angeles
and work in the Motion Picture Industry.
So, I help to produce and market
bad art every workday for fifty weeks a year.

But there’s a secret life I lead.
My partner and I host a poetry reading
at the most comfortable cybercafe in Los Feliz.
Due to my work commitments, the reading is
only for one day a month.

And it’s a very special reading.
To be a truly successful host, one has to book
the best and most literate poets in the city
so there will be an audience of sophisticated,
cutting-edge people-not just the usual coterie of
mediocre coffeehouse poets
wanting to read in the open
and harboring thoughts of featuring
at our elevated venue one day.

We have a special way of discouraging mediocrity.
If a bad poet comes too often, we make him or her
feel as if he or she is taking a spot belonging to
someone far more deserving.
It may take a few weeks, but eventually he or she
gets the message and never returns.

And need I add that our reading draws a large crowd
of successful poets and influential audience members?
One time, we had an audience of almost 50 people.
Fortunately, we didn’t have to deal with the Fire Marshall
ordering people to leave.

I wish you could have been at our most recent reading.
We had a glittering bill of four features-meaning no
open readers!!!! (yay)
There was a comedienne who used to write jokes for Sandra Tsing-Loh,
a Santa Ana poet who bills himself as The Last Liberal in Orange County,
a poet from Westchester who holds $1,000-per-person workshops
and our very special guest: actress AMBER TAMBLYN!!!

Truly a fabulous evening of poetry-all the right people were there.

Who could ask for anything more?

Eleven lessons I've learned from "the poetry community."

These lessons are a bit like rules of Fight Club (some straight-up, some laced with sarcasm):
1. Don't criticize the poetry community--after all, they're just sensitive-albeit-flawed human beings just like yourself, regardless of how meanspirited their behavior may seem.
2. Don't criticize specific poets in public.
3. Don't criticize specific poets in private--unless you're ultradeferential and are "mature" (i.e. keep comments as neutral as possible).
4. Don't lose your temper at poets and/or venue owners in public. If you do that, you're likely to be banned for years. If you don't care for a certain host or venue, just leave without comment and go home--and stay the hell away from that venue. It's better to make that choice than have it made for you.
5. Don't criticize the poetry community for wanting to exclude poets who don't meet certain quality-control standards. Corollary: Don't criticize poetry venues for deciding to raise standards by de-emphasizing giving first features to developing voices.
6. Don't criticize poetry community critics by poking fun at those who make pronouncements regarding what poetry should "survive"--and don't criticize the poems of poetry critics who have criticized your poetry.
7. Don't criticize poets who think they're community leaders. You're likely to be told that your criticisms aren't valid because you're not a "leader" like they are. Or you're likely to be compared to Joseph McCarthy.
8. Don't criticize poets who stage poetry festivals where the poets invited are limited to close-personal-friends of the host/organizer.
9. Don't get so angry with poets that you waste valuable time criticizing them on their listserves.
10. Don't complain to the poets in the admonition above (or to poet friends of yours or theirs) if you're banned from the poet's listserve and/or reading. Remember, you're on your own. Either mend fences or move on.
11. Remember when you're critical of poets and/or community, you're likely to hear variations of this phrase: IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH US, THEN IT MUST BE BECAUSE OF YOUR ATTITUDE!

Class dismissed.

Victor Infante and Ben Trigg explain The Ugly Mug for you.

One last (for the time being) post about how poetry business can get accomplished. A trend in certain venues in both Los Angeles and Orange Counties is to minimize the "growing" of local poets in favor of booking either touring or local "names"--either literary or slam-crossovers.

Here's an excerpt from Victor Infante interviewing his friend, Ugly Mug co-host Ben Trigg nearly two years ago for OC WEEKLY--where this trend is acknowledged on the record. The highlighting is done by me:
And perhaps the Ugly Mug reading is as much an artistic expression for Trigg as his poetry. Certainly, its growth as it enters its seventh year is astounding. Once it catered mostly to featuring local, developing writers, but it's now a frequent destination for touring poets, one where the pass-the-hat paycheck often nets the headliner more cash—as well as book sales—than some LA gigs.

"I like to think we've made this a completely welcoming space," says Trigg. "You're not going to be made unwelcome, no matter how bad your writing is. We're never going to overtly say anything to you. So this is worth doing. There must be some aspect of coming to the reading that's making the poets grow. And that's the vindicating thing."

But how much do the open-mike poets grow if the reading caters mostly to touring or local icons?

The complete interview can be found at:
http://www.ocweekly.com/2007-10-11/culture/nice-guys-finish-last/

OC poet Steve Ramirez and my going-on-five-years banishment from Orange's Ugly Mug.

There are many colorful tales in show business of personalities being 86ed from various venues for behavior or opinions contrary to management.

These include: Andrew Dice Clay's alleged disbarment from Ben Frank's coffee shop on the Sunset Strip (now a Mel's Drive-In), Dick Shawn's incurring of Johnny Carson's wrath when Shawn, guest-hosting THE TONIGHT SHOW, turned over Carson's desk on-camera to use it as a prop for a Washington-crossing-the-Delaware routine and Kathy Griffin being forbidden as a guest on THE VIEW for being Kathy Griffin.

I wish my tale of banishment could be a bit more colorful and extravagant. But, it isn't. It's a small tale of how one bad incident on my part unraveled roughly four-and-a-half years of acquaintanceship--and how the offended party has first justly responded, then flagrantly overreacted in the years since.

Once upon a time, I got along with Steve Ramirez--along with Ben Trigg, one of the two hosts of the TWO IDIOTS PEDDLING POETRY reading series in Orange (located at the Ugly Mug coffeehouse just a few blocks from Chapman University). I even featured there two to three times and, when we were both in Austin for the 2001 AIPF poetry festival, I gave Steve a ride in my rented car. Back then, Steve was nice to me and vice versa.

And then, for awhile, I didn't get down to OC to attend Ugly Mug readings. When I did, it seemed like Steve (who desired respect and parity with the Orange County poetry elite) got a somewhat swelled head and was a bit more distant with me.

To shorten this long story, I misbehaved at the Ugly Mug. I was primarily upset with something dismissive Steve said about me during the reading (which I probably set myself up for). And, after the reading, I couldn't contain my anger and wanted to talk to Steve. He didn't want any kind of conversation with me. I opted for the reaction of yelling at him. Mistake--especially considering some OC and LA Prominent Poets were still in the room. I walked out of the Ugly Mug, followed by the venue owner. The owner and I had words(one of mine fell into the David Mamet category)--and I was told to never come back.

This was nearly five years ago, in the late summer/early fall of 2004. Since then, I've tried to avoid adverse public behavior and have been mostly successful. On a handful of occasions, I've written Steve and asked to return. At first, he would shrug and say "it's up to [venue owner]." And I did write to the venue owner. No dice. As years passed, Steve would respond in a slightly more active-agressive "I wish you wouldn't come back/bother me about this" way.

And I took the hint and have left this subject alone.

But, as the five-year mark rolls around, I just want to go ahead and make my feelings public; I just don't care anymore about the inherent ridiculousness of Steve Ramirez' (plus the venue owner's) determination to hold on to his anger and wariness into infinity and beyond.

I've done my best to atone. Since 2004, I've accomplished a few good things in poetry--including being chosen as part of a publication reading this coming Saturday. And, to put it concisely, I don't care to enter the Ugly Mug for the rest of my life, regardless of whether Two Idiots Peddling Poetry or anyone else happen to host there.

I prefer self-respect instead.